[Movie Discussion] Captain America: Civil War

[anastasia]

This is the newest Marvel movie, and I have to say, I loved it.   It really made you think about the implications of the superheroes actions on society. In the months following the movie, my mind kept flipping between what team I was on, and I saw a lot of heated debates online as well. Both teams had good, well thought out points to make about the sides they picked. Ultimately, I'm on Team Cap because while these superheroes have massive powers, they are people at the end of the day and need to be treated as such. Not like weapons.

I really loved how all of the characters were well thought out and played. I especially loved Hawkeye's part. I feel like he really came into his own with this movie. Same with Iron Man. Even though it was a Captain America movie, it wasn't obviously one sided. It was really well thought out, and you felt for both sides. I also thought that they re-introduced Bucky's sane state of mind in an awesome way. I love Bucky, and the ending of Civil War made me very sad.

And of course... Spider-Man kind of stole the show. I love what they did with Spider-Man. <3

What about you guys? What stand out moments were there to you?

[redwerecat]

The whole movie upset me, because I just wanted them all to stop fighting and sit down and talk for an hour or so! But the whole plot of the movie seemed to be wrapped around how very little time they all had to sit down and think things over; everything snowballed and there wasn't TIME to decide things. They press for the Accords in three days, and during that time Steve hardly can even take a breath, between the fight with Crossbones rattling him and Peggy, and Tony is very, very distracted and guilt-laden after the Conference where he was blamed for the woman's son's death (forgive, I don't remember his name.) Things go from zero to sixty real fast. They all make on-the-fly decisions; Steve chooses to believe beyond a shadow of a doubt Bucky is innocent even when it seems he's guilty (and Steve is already INCREDIBLY leery of large organizations controlling his actions after SHIELD-is-HYDRA.)

Tony is guilty as heck and suffering from the loss of his support system (Pepper) and he's still paranoid and stressed and probably dealing with a lot of PTSD he's just not getting help for. (After the Chitauri, and then Ultron, he's acting held-together but he is scared as hell.) So he wants anyone to take the responsibility away from him, so he doesn't have to shoulder all that responsibility himself. He doesn't want to keep making the wrong decisions. Steve, on the other hand, believes in his own morals so deeply he would fight to the death for them. Most of the time they align with helping protect and save people, but he makes a good point that he doesn't want someone else to be responsible for his being able to help or not when he has the capability to...

And then by the end... AUGH. They almost come back to seeing eye-to-eye again, and then... it all gets flushed down the toilet. They even say, it stops being rational, and becomes entirely vengeance and emotional pain being taken out on one another. Which is terrible. And makes my poor, poor Bucky suffer.

Basically I have a lot of feelings for this movie, and a lot of feelings for all the characters, and I'm Team 'Please Stop Fighting and Think About This Without Your Fists For Five Minutes Okay'. (Tony has it right that there needs to be something more than the Avengers playing Vigilante, and Steve has it right that you can;t turn people into Weapons and Soldiers to be deployed like machines, but nether side seems to want to compromise and reach a middle ground. And the Accords don;t allow for that, for the most part, and there's no part where everyone sits and talks about the pros and cons for the ACTUAL PEOPLE INVOLVED that doesn't end in a metal-armed assassin accidentally getting in the way.)

Bucky is my baby, and I will always love him, but honestly, Ant-Man MIGHT be my new favorite Avenger. I really, really, really Like Scott WAY more than I expected. And Spider-man was amazing. But so was Hawkeye... and Vision was cute, and War Machine- I love them all please stop me I have no least favorite they are all my number 1.

But really my favorite moments are A, Bucky and his apartment of sadness, B, GIANT MAN, and C, WAKANDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

Also the ridiculously antagonistic relationship between Falcon and Bucky, because it's exactly the kind of 'I will have your back and die for you but you are never going to hear the end of it' rivalry-friendship they have in the comics and I love it.

[JudithC]

Were, I'm with you when it comes to sitting down and talking.  Unfortunately, this summer's big Marvel movies seem to have reverted to the idea of explosions > personal interactions.  Personally I feel exactly the opposite. I think the genre has evolved far beyond the point where it was dominated by teenage boys, but somehow the people making the movies have misplaced that idea.  I loved the way the Tony/Pepper relationship was going before it was turned into so much excess baggage.  Then again, I'm awfully fond of them, both individually and as a couple.  Keeping Tony from having a serious relationship might work - no, does work - in the comics, where they're dealing with a decades-long run.  In the movies?  Not so much, at least in my opinion.

My other big problem, which I've mentioned elsewhere, is the lack of connection between the Avengers-related movies and the Agents of SHIELD TV series.  I believe that if that connection had not been misplaced, probably for RL reasons, it would have made a huge difference to the way both sides of the war approached matters.  How could a population of unknown size of people with powers not make a difference?

As someone with mostly untreated PTSD, my heart aches for Tony in that area, too.  It's not something you get past overnight, and yet he's expected to because...  Why?  Because he has a suit?  Because he's a genius?  Neither of those things help at all, because the effects of PTSD are neither physical nor intellectual. 

I found it profoundly ironic that the poster child for nonconformity was advocating conformity in the form of registration of people with powers, while the hero of the establishment was in favor of the individual.  And I did enjoy the way they (finally) overcame RL licensing issues to bring in Spider-Man.  However...  I think the production team is reaching the point that the size of the cast of characters they have to deal with is getting away from them.  I can see Tony's situation leading to him going exploring on his own, which in turn could lead to the Guardians of the Galaxy gang being brought in, but I'm more than a little concerned about how adding yet another group of characters will affect the depth with which any one of them can be treated.